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Bachmann 9, Us 8, U.s. 5, Michele Bachmann 5, South Carolina 4, Obama 4, Rick Perry 4, Rebecca Brooks 4, Boehner 4, St. Louis 3, New Hampshire 3, Rupert Murdoch 3, Chris Christie 3, Washington 3, George Michael 3, Dr. Marcus Bachmann 3, Illinois 2, D.c. 2, Oklahoma City 2, Olay 2,
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  MSNBC    MSNBC Live    News/Business. Live news coverage, breaking news  
   and current news events with host Thomas Roberts. New.  

    July 12, 2011
    11:00 - 12:00pm EDT  

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the big divide. congressional leaders return to the negotiating table in a few hours trying to hammer out a deal. the two sides farther apart than they've ever been. the question is, if not now, when will a deal happen? the extreme heat is the number one killer in the u.s. claiming more lives than tornados, floods, even hurricanes. how bad things are getting across the country right now. praying gay away. the secret videotape involving presidential candidate michele bachmann and her husband's clinic. does their business claim to have a cure for homosexuality? calling rupert murdoch, the
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media magnate and his son have been called before parliament to explain the phone-tapping scandal that could bring them down. i'm thomas roberts. we get to president obama preparing for another round of debt talks with congressional leaders as the clock continues to tick. speaker boehner reenforced his party's message and put pressure on the president this morning. take a listen. >> this debt limit increase is his problem. i think it's time for him to lead by putting his plan on the table, something the congress can pass. >> nbc's kristen welker is live at the white house for us this morning. the president is going to be back at it again today. you heard the speaker there. how have things developed in the 24 hours since yesterday's news conference? >> certainly some of the sharpest rhetoric we heard from speaker boehner to date just a few days ago law makers talking about the importance of bipartisanship. today speaker boehner saying the president really needs to put his plan forward. the rhetoric is heating up here
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in d.c. a lot of people are saying that the talks are stalling. in fact, one official who i just spoke with moments ago who has knowledge of these talks said, i don't know what these talks are accomplishing. here is what we can tell you happened yesterday though. congressional leaders the president identified about $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction over the next decade. cuts to things like defense spending, medicare, medicaid. the problem with that figure is that it just doesn't get you to the $2.4 trillion needed to increase the debt ceiling through 2012. president obama said he is not going to sign off on anything that doesn't get us through 2012. that's where the sticking point is. president obama urged democrats and republicans to come to the table over their sacred cows, saying that democrats have to come to the table over reforms to entitlements, including social security, medicare. he is urging republicans to come to the table over rolling back
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tax credits for wealthy americans, big corporations, and that is really the number one sticking point here. speaker boehner digging in his heels saying we are not going to agree to anything that looks like a tax hike. here is thou senator chuck schumer responded to republicans earlier today. >> an agreement, a budget agreement cannot be considered bold or comprehensive unless it asks millionaires, billionaires and wealthy corporations to contribute to deficit reduction. they don't have to do the whole thing. they've got to do their share. >> reporter: again law makers are set to meet again this afternoon with all of that as the back drop. the president has challenged congressional leaders to come back to identify at least $1 trillion more in deficit reductions over the next decade so that we can get to that $2.4 trillion figure. again, one official told me he is doubtful that today's meeting will really produce anything substantial. we will have to wait and see
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because we are still a few hours out. we'll monitor the meeting very closely. thomas? >> kristen welker at the white house, thanks so much. >> let's talk more about this and take a closer look at the politics of the debate in the race of the white house for our experts. this morning we have jonathan alter, columnist for "bloomberg view" and author of "the promise." matt lewis, senior contributor for "the daily caller." thanks for being here. jonathan, it looks as if when we talk about the house republicans, some might argue who is in charge right now because of the internal bickering we continue to watch playing out in front of the cameras. >> kind of looks like eric cantor is calling the tune here. john boehner, the speaker, wanted what they call a big deal. a $4 trillion deal. it was eric cantor who said no, we don't care that much about the deficit reduction, which is an interesting change of tune
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from where they've been for many months. we care more about holding the line on making sure there are no tax increases on the wealthy. that's our bottom line. the rest of the republican party basically went along with that, isolating the speaker, trapping him in the middle. to show that he is still tough, john boehner came on and delivered a tough statement today. the republicans are split right now and that puts them in a little bit more of a vulnerable position. the president has the mega phone. he had a good press conference yesterday where he laid it out pretty starkly. maybe should have done that a long time ago. he has now got them in a position politically where he is saying, what's the deal here? you said you wanted to put this country on a sound, fiscal footing. i'm willing to cut $4 trillion. what about $4 trillion in deficit reduction do you not
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like? they now have to give an answer to that question. >> secretary geithner gave a bleak picture on the sunday talk shows. in 2012 we are seeing in polls how this is all playing out. what everyone in watching is thinking how can i get re-elected. we talk about the presidential race. congresswoman bachmann leading in iowa. it's not the state who is always the indicator who the gop nominee will end up being. let's take our popularity search past iowa. what does she need to do in new hampshire and south carolina to really make this a two-horse race with romney? >> i think you're right. barack obama, a lot of times the democrats, barack obama is a classic example. wins iowa, loses new hampshire and goes on from there and ends up winning the nomination. for republicans, hike huckabee won iowa last time. he obviously didn't win the nomination. winning iowa in and of itself isn't enough. what it can be is the big mo, the idea is to win iowa then
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propel yourself to a strong finish in new hampshire. he probably wouldn't win new hampshire, perform well there. she would go to south carolina where she would need to win. if michele bachmann or for that matter rick perry, sarah palin, other candidates in a similar position can win iowa and south carolina, that puts them on a trajectory to raise the money. the high profile they would need to parlay that into a nomination. >> it really is a marathon and a snowball that rolls along all the way up till we get to the day when we decide who the next president is going to be. the iowa republican also released the poll with republicans who haven't declared. this is interesting. chris christie is in double digits ahead of palin. rick perry, for him, does this mean there is a renewed effort from gop donors to get chris christie? the race? we don't see rick perry on there. he is below sarah palin.
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look at that number for chris christie, 13%, can't be ignored. >> he is popular within the republican party. he is the governor a blue state who is getting it done for them. so he is a rock star now in the party. were he to decide later on in the process he wanted to get in, there is still time. he keeps saying adamantly he is not going to. privately is after the november elections this year in new jersey, that it's possible he might revisit the issue. the big speculation is whether rick perry gets in. that would reshape this race. the thing within the republican party that is interesting right now is on this debt ceiling. this is, for all the marbles, this will determine our future for the next ten years. it's really big. okay? so the question that i have for people in the tea party, and i've gotten interesting answers from this, what do you care about more? deficit reduction, taking the government off the credit card
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and the burden on our grandchildren, or protecting tax breaks for the rich? you have to make a choice. the interesting thing, tom, and this is something i wish reporters would ask some of these candidates and tea party people more often is when asked to make a choice, the tea party folks almost always prefer deficit reduction. that's what got them in politics. fiscal responsibility. somehow we've gotten off of that in this debate. this is what is supposed to be motivating the whole conversation. yet, the president puts $4 trillion in cuts on the table and gets the back of their hand. >> majority of tea partiers don't fall in the top 2% of the country's wealth. thanks so much for joining us today. 24 states along with washington, d.c., are under heat advisories or excessive heat warnings, temperatures are rising above 100 degrees in
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places like utah and kansas, temperatures rising as high as 111 degrees. the heat is being blamed for one death as 51-year-old illinois man was downed dead in his trailer after his air conditioner stopped working. mara schiavocampo joins us live with more. it can be intense and causes more deaths around the country, more than hurricanes and floods. >> absolutely. it's not just that it's so hot. it's the middle of july and so hot, that happens every year, but going on for such a stretch of time. oklahoma city is facing almost two weeks now of temperatures in the hundreds. over 100 degrees. they are not alone. dallas is facing its 11th day today with temperatures above 100 degrees. it's this sizzling summer
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scorcher that won't stop. in st. louis, it's not even noon. it's already sweltering. it's expected to feel like 115 degrees today. you can see behind me people are doing whatever they can to stay cool. they are getting wet in the fountains to try to cool off a little bit. despite the midwest and some of the other parts of the country having faced this for so long, the east coast is bracing itself. heat advisories have been issued from georgia up to connecticut. temperatures are going to start to feel like they are in the hundreds. just to touch upon what you mentioned a moment ago, this is very dangerous. that man in illinois died. he suffered a fatal heat stroke because his air conditioner broke. emergency workers are advising people if your air conditioner isn't working, leave your house and seek someplace cool. they are reminding people to please take your pets with you. they are just as vulnerable to heat stroke as everyone else is. we shouldn't have to say this every time, but you hear stories of people getting arrested for
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leaving their kids in the car. don't keep anything alive in the car, not kids, not pets. be mindful of the symptoms you are feeling. they could be heat exhaustion. nausea, throbbing head, high body temperature, anything over 103 seek help for that to stay safe and cool. >> it's good to think of your elderly neighbors, too. that's great advice about pets and what people can do if their air conditioner does falter on them. go somewhere to cool off. mara, thanks so much. appreciate it. how long could these steamy temps hold up around the country. for that we say hello to meteorologist eric fisher. >> good morning. just hearing people talk about the heat is making people sweat. 89 in dallas, atlanta 89. new york city up to 87, as well. we go to the worst of the heat where it is very hot and
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actually mara's live location 92. little rock is up to 94. nashville at 94. oklahoma city at 91. well on the way to the triple digit heat. that's the temperature. how about the dew point? that tells you how humid it is. dew point 80 in st. louis. when you see 80 on the map, that means it's down right oppressive. it's dangerous and can turn deadly. when you combine the two, the feels-like temperature, it feels like 110 outside in st. louis, 102 in little rock. 101 in charleston, south carolina, and d.c., 94. this is lunchtime. we have four to six hours of heating. records could fall across the mid-atlantic during the day. when is it going to cool down? northern states get the cooldown tomorrow. great lakes into the northeast. take a look at the long-term pattern. high pressure will build once again. back into the heat this weekend. >> thanks so much. weather channel's eric fisher. will democrats agree to
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include social security changes in the debt talks? we'll talk to one leading congressman about the president's plan. >> then how the uk phone-hacking scandal is threatening rupert murdoch's other business ventures. don't worry, lucky, these wheat thins crunch stix will save us. [ crunch ] look! [ male announcer ] wheat thins crunch stix. try our new flavors. [ tires squeal ]
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rupert murdoch and his son james have been summoned to appear before a parliament committee next week. former uk prime minister gordon brown is accusing murdoch's newspaper of employing criminals to attain private information
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about his family. >> reporter: foreign prime minister felt he needed to speak with the bbc to talk about these new allegations that appeared in the british media and to vent his anger over what happened years ago. the most incriminating or perhaps the most passionate was in talking about an incident with the "sun" newspaper which at the time was led by rebecca brooks. they gained information that his son had cystic fibrosis. it was only known by a small group of individuals and was somehow leaked to "the sun." they heard of these allegations and want more information. the "sun" stands by its reporting and the means they got the information. >> is george michael being called into these hearings, as well, because of some meeting he had with rebecca brooks? >> reporter: well george michael, interestingly, popped
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up a bit because he has been tweeting on this issue. he is being called in to scotland yard as part of their investigation to answer some questions. that's because he said that rebecca brooks, he said this in a tweet, rebecca brooks told him almost all the information that appeared in the tabloid was given to them by the police. he went on in a later tweet and talked about the fact that most likely the police are getting quite a bit of money for coming up with these tips. the investigation continues and is widening. in an effort to do something that is exhaustive this time they are checking every angle. george michael falls into that category. >> how are the people of london reacting to this as they see this paper and the details how it was run start to unravel? >> reporter: well, unfortunately, doesn't come as a big surprise for a lot of people here. there is a lot of mistrust. one towards politicians in this country and two towards the media. this for a lot of people just
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represents what they've known all along, there have been dubious practices. i don't think people here understood the extent to which reporters were going after some of this information or allegedly going after this information and hacking into cell phones. i think what really triggered the most anger in this country was when they found out they were going after cell phones of murder victims and soldiers killed in wars abroad. >> stephanie gosk live in london for us. thank you. opening doors at west point military academy. could one of president obama's newest advisors help bring about real change with regard to don't ask/don't tell? we'll talk about a woman the president recently appointed. [ male announcer ] this...is the network -- a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience
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welcome back.
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one of the first females to graduate from west point is returning to her alma mater. the first time in the legacy of the military academy, an openly gay woman will serve on its board of visitors at the request of the president himself. the woman is none other than brenda sue fulton. sue joins me today in studio live to talk about this new position. it's great to have you here. it was nice to meet you, but better to have this opportunity to talk with everybody about what's going on and how exciting this new appointment is. give me your reaction to what it was like to have president obama appoint you in this role, especially being it's your alma mater and you made history when you were one of the first female cadets there? >> thank you, thomas. it's an incredible honor. west point holds a place in the hearts of all americans. the mission to train leaders of character for the army and the country. especially those of us who graduated. we definitely, i have a love for west point, a love for the army. i'm so honored to have been selected for this. >> with the abolishment of don't
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ask/don't tell, do you think this was more of a symbolic gesture or holds weight to show the demonstration of what the obama administration is committed to when it comes to the repeal of don't ask/don't tell and to our nation's military? >> i think based on what secretary gates said before he stepped down and what the president said, we are weeks, not months away from don't ask/don't tell repeal that is coming very soon. in terms of this being a symbol, if i can help west point send a signal in the future post repeal that it doesn't matter whether you're male, female, gay, straight, black or white or whatever, if you're willing and qualified to serve your country, come on. you're welcome. that symbol can be important to people. >> for gay and lesbian young people there that would like to become cadets, how can they rest assure there is no threat of their safety and they can feel a part of the unit cohesion that evolved from that type of training for further military
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service? >> part of the code of west point, values of west point include mutual respect and integrity. treating others with dignity. that's what you have to do in order to be an effective leader of soldiers. that's what we are training. in my mind, don't ask-don't tell is inconsistent with those codes and those ideals. i feel there won't be a huge change for west point. west point can implement don't ask-don't tell repeal fine without me. i think it's going to go smoothly. coming back to what you said before, if i can help send that signal and be part of the work of the board of visitors getting the best, most qualified people to west point, that is a good thing. >> on a larger role, i want to talk about jobs right now. current unemployment rate in the country is 9.2%. the unemployment rate for vets who served any time after september 11, 2001, reads 13.3% in june. this is according to the u.s. bureau of labor statistics.
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does this figure concern new terms of challenges both vets and soldiers face when coming home and being embraced by what the real world responsibilities are of their daily lives back here at home? >> it's very troubling, thomas. veterans have demonstrated that they have responsibility. they demonstrated commit. they demonstrated courage. i would think it would be attractive to employers. if our wounded warriors are facing challenges, i think it's incumbent on all of us to make sure they have the resources to be successful in the work place and in life. we owe them that. we need to make sure they are delivering. >> brenda sue fulton, congratulations. >> thank you, thomas. >> keep in touch and let us know what you're doing at west point. why are middle class african-americans still struggling?
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good morning, i'm thomas roberts. afghanistan's president hamid karzai's half brother was assassinated by one of his own guards. poli are seaing he was shot in the head at point-blank range inside his home in kandahar earlier this morning. the shooter was also killed. the taliban taking credit for this murder, claiming they hired the man who did it. u.s. officials believe ahmad wali karzai had ties with the drug cartel in the country. wikileaks founder is in court to be extradited back. the court appearance follows a
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lavish birthday party he threw for himself over the weekend. the great recession devastated minorities in this country, possibly erasing decades of progress made by the middle class. the recession knocked the average net worth of white house soelds from $137,000 to $97,000, a 24% drop. among black families, average net worth fell from $13,000 to just $2,000. that means black families saw their income plunge 83% from the recession. joining me in our sound-off segment is nbc contributor melissa harris perry, professor of political science at tulane as well as college of the nation. i think i haven't seen you in a month of sundays. >> it's been a long time. >> great to have you back. as we look at what these numbers mean, they mean every dollar a white household has, the average black household has two cents. can we cite those specifics as
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to why african-americans have been so much harder hit by the recession we've all been living through? >> sure. part is the immediacy of this recession. we'll have to go back further in time to see where it originates. it really is an issue that even as the income gap had been closing between african-american and white households, the wealth gap had been consistently growing. even as they are making more money on the dollar, black households were having less overall wealth. their homes were worth less money. their investments were worth less money. that really has everything to do with policies going all the way back to the new deal when african-americans were shut out of some of the very earliest homeownership opportunities. >> let's talk about since the recession technically ended. the overall unemployment rate has fallen 9.5% to 9.2%. among african-americans it's risen from 14.7% to 16.2%. as the economy improves, why
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aren't african-americans feeling it and feeling it more quickly than they have so far? >> right. the theory here should be that a rising tide lifts all boats. it looks like this rising tide is leaving some people still drowning. this has everything to do with market segmentation. in other words, where people get jobs, what sorts of jobs people are prepared to do. as the economy comes back, it doesn't replace the same sorts of jobs. it replaces jobs that used to be manual labor jobs, jobs that require relatively less formal education with those that require more education, more technical skill and capacity. african-americans who have also had lower educational opportunities, in addition to less wealth in their households are left behind in this you this job market. >> is the problem also while many americans were hit hard by the recession, i mean it was a shared burden all around, however, it's a knockout punch for a lot of black families because they might be living paycheck to paycheck?
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>> not only living paycheck to paycheck. also remember african-american middle class families are more intimately tied to african-american poor families. you may be middle class, but your sister, your cousin, your mom or dad may not be. many african-american elders did not work jobs that allowed them to pay into the social security system. many of those elders don't have the same kind of benefits that white seniors have. a black middle class family is often reaching forward, backward, sideways all at the same time. apparently with $2,000, which as you can imagine, does not go far. >> that's a tight budget right there. i want to point out on another note, unemployment among hispanics is in double digits, 11.6%. is this another group moving into the middle class could be lost or set back by decades? >> undoubtedly. it's a great debate for our democracy. i think the strength of our democracy is that belief that each generation can do better
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than the generation before. that's where that striving comes from, that willingness to work hard, to sacrifice, to save money. is your belief that the next generation can do better? instead of that happening, things are getting worse and worse. you have people willing to opt into criminal lifestyles rather than continuing to be trying to part to build the american story. >> it's always been about making the next generation better. hopefully we can get back on track. thank you. >> thanks. >> a los angeles man who once produced the cbs series "survivor" will be fighting in court this hour to avoid murder charges in mexico. authorities in cancun are trying to extradite the man for allegedly killing his wife in april 2010, then dumping her body in a waste water treatment tank. the suspect is hopeful some key testimony is going to help him in this case. nbc's miguel emalmaguer is in l
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angeles. who is the subject that will testify on behalf of alex? >> they are hoping the couple's 6-year-old daughter, the suspect and victim's 6-year-old daughter is able to testify. from our understanding, what would happen inside the court proceedings, it wouldn't be a testimony. the judge would take this 6-year-old daughter into her chambers, ask her a few questions and then move forward and make a decision whether extradition will happen. that process won't happen today if the judge does decide the former "survivor" producer should be extradited. that would delay it for a couple of months. if bruce beresford-redman was released, he could walk out of jail as early as today. the testimony of his 6-year-old daughter is so important. the defense says she will rebut so much of the prosecutor's
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testimony. the prosecutor's office, u.s. prosecutors say this murder took place inside the couple's hotel room. the family of four all shared one hotel room during the alleged time of the murder inside that hotel room. the defense says that basically the 6-year-old daughter will say that never happened inside the room. she could be key testimony if that does happen today. >> so much on a little 6-year-old. migu miguel almaguer, thank you for your report. a secret videotape raising questions about how the bachmann clinic treats patients who might be gay. we'll talk to one of the people behind that investigation. who can forget this? >> read my lips, no new taxes. >> what drives the gop's stance against taxes? [ female announcer ] think all bodywashes moisturize the same?
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republican leaders attending the next meeting on the debt this afternoon brought their talking points to the microphone on capitol hill. >> i don't trust the press. >> no. >> we trust the press. >> course we do. >> they left out the sad parts of this story, but they got it right. it was unruly. >> it is unfathomable to me why our president thinks that he's got to condition any prescription to fix these programs on tax increases. >> the truth is the democrats saw this debate as a unique opportunity to impose the type of tax hikes they want so badly, but couldn't even pass in a democratic-controlled senate last year. so let's not be fooled by false choice. >> minority leader nancy pelosi is talking tough in
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negotiations, putting a priority on protecting medicare and social security from any major cuts. maryland congressman chris van hollen was at the table during the biden-led negotiations and he joins me now. nice to see you again. i want to go in straight about the rhetoric that you're hearing from republicans before and after these meetings. you have the president publically open to compromise. 24 hours ago he was talking about that. how confident do you think the president can be that any deal he makes that will probably have pain for democrats, as well, as he pointed out, will have the support from house democrats? >> i think the house democrats are willing to give the president quite a bit of space to negotiate something that would be very important to get the economy going again, including some payroll tax relief, combined with long-term deficit reduction that's meaningful but balanced. what you're hearing from the republicans, they are not willing to move one inch when it comes to closing some of these corporate loopholes, whether
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it's private jets, oil and gas companies. we need to emphasize one point. the president said that in the near term we are actually going to provide the great majority of the american people with additional payroll tax relief. beginning in the year 2013, you could close these loopholes and begin to ask the folks at the very top simply to go back to the same rates they were at during the clinton administration when the economy was booming, added 20 million jobs. >> sir, i want to put up a new poll about the debt ceiling. more americans are worried about what happens if we raise the debt limit. what does that say about faith in washington to you, and the republican strength when it comes to the message about more? a lot of them had no problem raising the debt limit in the previous decade. it was always done. >> that's right. when ronald reagan was president, the debt limit was lifted multiple times. more telling is the republican budget, the one that passed the
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house would require us to lift the debt ceiling into the future. they all voted on a budget just a few months ago that will require debt ceiling increases. all of a sudden they are getting sanctimonious about something that would be required. it will have a huge impact on every family since its history, defaults on debt payments. republicans are saying let's pay china and our foreign creditors first. let's not pay social security beneficiaries, let's not pay doctors who provide medicare services. that is not the wrong priority but will send a terrible message to the credit markets we will not make good on the full faith and credit of the united states. >> congressman chris van hollen. we'll let you get back to work. thank you, sir. >> thank you, thomas. republican presidential
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candidate michele bachmann has made fighting same-sex marriage one of the largest of her political career. national investigative correspondent michael isikoff has this story from washington, d.c. >> reporter: 20-year-old john becker sought help last month from therapists at bachmann associates, christian counseling center owned by michele bachmann and her psychologist husband marcus bachmann. >> i sold them i wanted to be rid of my same-sex attractions and rid of my homosexuality. >> reporter: in five one-hour sessions he secretly taped on behalf of a gay rights group, they advised him how to welcome straight in counseling, prayer and scripture. >> any time i had homosexual thoughts, to pray about it, to take it to the bible. >> reporter: becker says he wanted to prove the bachmann clinic uses a controversial technique called reparative h p
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therapy to cure gays and lesbians. god designed your body to be attracted to the woman's body. to be attracted to everything. >> reporter: this has been repudiated by the american psychological association. bachmann decide his clinic uses such practices. the video could raise new questions about the clinic and michele bachmann's views on homosexuality. from her first days as a state senator she led a charge on the banff same-session marriage. >> if this goes on the marriage, it will pass overwhelmingly. >> reporter: the controversial 2004 speech she compared what she called the gay lifestyle to slavery. >> if you're involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it's bondage. it's personal bondage, personal despair and personal envafbment and that's why this is so dangerous. >> reporter: comments such as
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these alarmed some gop strategists and many gay republicans. >> congresswoman bachmann's view points on gay and lesbian americans is on the fringe. more and more americans believe and accept their gay neighbors, families, friends, colleagues are just who they are. >> reporter: analysts say her uncompromising views on homosexuality are also one of the big reasons she is gaining traction in iowa. just last week she reenforced her message becoming the first gop presidential candidate to sign a controversial marriage vow that pledgees vigorous opposition to same-sex marriage. she also vowed to push for a federal marriage amendment to the u.s. constitution. >> we asked the bachmann campaign for a response and comment on this story. a spokeswoman says bachmann and associates is a christian counseling center that provides services to patients with a variety of counseling and mental health issues. she refused to discuss the specifics of this or any other case citing patient
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confidentiality. she did say, "the clinic honors and respects all people for whatever issues they come in for, and if there is a conflict, they refer elsewhere." win becker is the author of "anything straight." i want to thank you for being here today. i want to start out by playing you a comment we have on tape of dr. marcus bachmann speaking to a christian conservative radio talk show about how he feels gas and lesbians can be saved. >> we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined, and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road. that's what's called a sinful nature. and we have a responsibility as parents and authority figures not to encourage such thoughts." and feelings to move into the action steps."
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>> most of these counselling clinics have people on board that are living the talk. they have been through repairtive therapy themselves. do we know if dr. marcus bachmann has lived through that or any of his counselors? >> we don't know if he or anyone else has. i would suspect that many of them or some of them have. they're close to an exgay minister named janet boins. they sell her book in the clinic. she says some very strange things. for example, she believes that same sex marriage is legalized half of all couples getting married in the few years will be gay. >> john becker who did the investigation where he went posing as a gay individual that wanted to change his lifestyle and change the attraction that he had to men. the undercover video was very telling. do you think that it was fair of what your organization stands for to go and put the feet to the fire so to speak of bachmann
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and soshts to find out how they do deal with patients that come in and say they're confused about a same sex attraction? >> marcus bachmann wasn't being forthcoming. he said his therapy practice didn't do this and they do. the question if somebody goes to them for help if somebody goes to a doctor and they're a body builder, if a model comes in and says help me starve so i can get a job, a doctor would say no because it's unhealthy. this exgay therapy is incredibly unhealthy. it's rejected by every respected mental health organization. my organization trut wins out has to deal with victims who go to their misses like bachmann who have their lives destroyed that they're told there's something wrong with them. there's nothing wrong with them. there's something wrong with this therapy. >> the american psychological association has done studies about this therapy. they say efforts to change
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sexual orientation are unlikely and involve some harm or risk. how widespread is this belief that this can happen, that you can go to some type of christian counselling center and come out a different person when it comes to your attraction. you feel that what you are, gay, straight or martian? >> the majority of the americans think it's nonsense. they laugh at it. among evangelical christian it's popular. there's ministers across the country. they try to pray away the gay, to conventional counselling to bizarre things like exorcism to get out the demon of homosexuality. unfortunately even in this day and age these backward practices are occurring even though we know the scientific facts say it's harmful, ineffective, it doesn't work. there are people taking money unethically from trying to cure gay and lesbian people. >> just to confirm dr. marcus bachmann doesn't say that he has
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prayed away the gay or any of his counsel los? >> no, he has not. >> we're going to be back with much more here on msnbc. naturals from purina cat chow. delicious, real ingredients with no artificial flavors or preservatives. naturals from purina cat chow. share a better life.
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welcome back. it's time for our flip side, our look behind the headlines. why are republicans so frmly opposed to any kind of tax increase in the debt deal? maybe it's the painful memories of this moment back in 1988. >> read my lips, no new taxes. >> there you have it. george h.w. bush was elected that year. he famously broke his pledge to fight a rising deficit at the a.p. reports it cost him a re-election battle against bill clinton that could be why so many republican politicians have signed a taxpayer protection pledge. a written vow not to raise taxes any under circumstances. it's spearheaded by grover norquist a powerful voice in the
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grand old party. only six republicans have not signed the pledge. that's no coincidence. nate silver calculates that the current house of representatives may be the most economically ever. we'll see what that mean for the the debt talks. that's going to do it for me today. i'm going to see you back here at 11:00 a.m. eastern time well, v8 v-fusion juice gives you a full serving of vegetables, plus a full serving of fruit. but it just tastes like fruit. and try our deliciously refreshing v8 v-fusion + tea.
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